Memphis man shoots teen who refuses to pull up saggy pants

Now... if the boys had guns it would have been a conservative's dream. They could have fired back and everything would have been even, right?

That is what they contend would reduce crime, everyone packing.

Exactly... it would be a perfect world according to the gun-rights advocates, the NRA and those who believe that the only Amendment to the Constitution is the 2nd Amendment. No crime. Just a bunch of fun-loving citizens in open gunfights on the street. Greaaaaat.

The man is clearly unbalanced and should have the charge increased to attempted murder as noted above.

But these two shiftless youths with their snarky comments should think twice the next time someone tells them to pull their damn pants up.

How about a "Yes sir!"? Is that in any youths vocabulary these days?

The man had no right to tell the boys to pull their pants up.Who in the hell does he think he is to go around telling others how to dress?It is none of his business and I hope they throw the book at him and let him sit in prison a long long time.

But these two shiftless youths with their snarky comments should think twice the next time someone tells them to pull their damn pants up.

How about the man shuts his @!$%#ing piehole? It is none of his damn business how people dress. And how about the man not start the conversation with yelling at someone walking on a public street. Did you read the article and miss this part:

From a yard in the 4400 block of Whiteside, Bonds began yelling at the pair to pull their pants up.

Initially, both teens ignored him, according to a police report.

Bonds then called the youths a derogatory word for gay men. He added, using profanity, that he was a grown man and that they should do what he said.

Notice they ignored him until he started calling them names.

How about a "Yes sir!"? Is that in any youths vocabulary these days?

How about not calling kids names like "faggot"? Is that in adults capabilities these days?

If those teens had guns for "self defense", there would be three or more people dead instead of one non-life threatening injury.

That is really what gun rights activists don't understand. Guns escalate tense situations that would otherwise not end in fatal violence.

But these two shiftless youths with their snarky comments should think twice the next time someone tells them to pull their damn pants up.

How about a "Yes sir!"? Is that in any youths vocabulary these days?

I wouldn't tell my kids to respect someone who comes up to them in the streets telling them what to do. That man had no right to speak to them about anything period.

For those above who say, "what if the kids had guns..."

Well... if the kids had guns and the old guy knew it, would he have been as likely to pull out his OWN gun? Probably not. As the Old West saying goes - "Abe Lincoln may have made everyone free, but it was Samuel Colt who made them equal."

How about not calling kids names like "faggot"? Is that in adults capabilities these days?

The "gentleman" in the story was no more of an adult mentally than the two boys.

How about a "Yes sir!"? Is that in any youths vocabulary these days?

Excuse me? Why in the world should two teenagers respond to a complete stranger ordering them to do something with a "Yes sir."

If they were raised properly to be respectful towards adults that is absolutely what should be said. Sensing that he may be a disturbed man even more so- just get out of there.

I have no problem with their odd wearing of pants. For once just put your head down, pull up your pants and get out of there. Then lower your pants away from the nut job.

When someone is out of line being loud and stupid should your response be one that is even louder and more stupid?

I believe that's why one of them got a bullet in the ass.

Listen, grandpa. Nobody, not even a young child, has to be respectful towards a complete stranger who is ordering them to do something. An adult on the street has NO right to tell a passing teenager what to do.

And your reading glasses must be malfunctioning because you seem to have missed the part of the article that stated that these two kids ignored the man until he started acting like a foul-mouthed bigot who felt that he had control over every kid on the block. The man then walked into a house and came out with a gun and shot them.

You seem absolutely stuck on the point that a stranger shouldn't be telling someone else what to do. Of course not, I am in full agreement.

Their typical shiftless youth of today response was to try and one up him with their "fat ass" comment. A properly raised child would put their head down, do as he says, and get out of there and let it go.

By the way, do you always use profanity in your posts and hide it with $%#@? How rude.

You are being so hot headed, in no way does my suggestion for them to leave his presence quickly suggest that I am warranting his behavior.

Their typical shiftless youth of today response was to try and one up him with their "fat ass" comment. A properly raised child would put their head down, do as he says, and get out of there and let it go.

They did ignore him. However, he wouldn't leave them alone and he escalated to calling them extremely insulting, derogatory terms. This sick man was determined to get his way. Do you honestly expect a teenager to take continuous verbal harassment from a stranger and not respond with a couple of dirty words? Frankly, the fact that they only called him "fat ass" actually shows that they had some restraint. Most teenagers (and adults) wouldn't have been so polite.

Maybe there is a benefit to the "shiftless youth" of today. They no longer bend over backwards when a self-righteous adult orders them around.

I agree calm the @!$%# down 8p

But you are injecting pure emotion into your post which is now riddled with invectives and projected assumptions.

Since neither of us were there to see the subtleties of the event beyond the basic reporting, we can go back and forth ad infinitum on what are now semantics.

I have stated now three times that the disturbed man needs to have the charge upgraded to attempted murder. Beyond that are disagreement lies in the topic of "the youth of today."

I thank you for the didactic intercourse.

But you are injecting pure emotion into your post which is now riddled with invectives and projected assumptions.

And I have stated that I am not "injecting pure emotion." Cursing does not necessarily equate emotion. Like I said, calmly defuting your bull@!$%#.

Since neither of us were there to see the subtleties of the event beyond the basic reporting, we can go back and forth ad infinitum on what are now semantics.

What subteties? We can go by the article which stated the kids ignored them at first, right? Semantics? You called them "shiftless lazy youth" because of how they dress. Now who is inferring? I won't go back and forth. You are just @!$%#ing wrong.

I have stated now three times that the disturbed man needs to have the charge upgraded to attempted murder.

Well good on you.

Beyond that are disagreement lies in the topic of "the youth of today."

Nah - the topic is you making @!$%#ing broad assed assumptions from an article where, how did you say it, you can't determine the nuances of the situation and getting called out on it.

I thank you for the didactic intercourse.

Thank you for your obtuse attitude.

Your cynical, right-at-all-costs, attitude is only egregiously surpassed by your continued use of expletives substituted with grawlix, as noted by your two deleted posts above.

And I think you were being equally obtuse, as my point has been expressed elsewhere in this thread many times and in many different ways.

For instance:

Maybe these a$clowns will pull their pants up next time someone tells them do. I don't know anyone, except other hamsters and hamster wanna bes, that like seeing butt sticking out of pants. And what's with the crouch holding? If your crouch itches so bad you have to constantly hold it - try washing it or see a Doctor cuz there is something wrong.

Your cynical, right-at-all-costs, attitude is only egregiously surpassed by your continued use of expletives substituted with grawlix, as noted by your two deleted posts above.

Your lack of understanding that the NV substitutes grawlix for curse words when you have the profanity filter enabled. But given your lack of understanding on the topic of discussion would make that consistent.

And I think you were being equally obtuse, as my point has been expressed elsewhere in this thread many times and in many different ways

Thanks for admitting you are being pbtuse. It is a start. Your denial at all cost up until now has only been exceeded by your stubborness to understand the only crime the kids in this situation committed was to respond in approrpriately after having been affronted multiple times and then shot for it. But then they are "shiftless youth" now aren't they.

See comment 1.22. Then try to argue against the fact that the only person who did a criminal act was the 'adult'.

Society has the "right" to dictate how others behave in that society.

Only when it does not infringe on individual's rights. You advocating for infringing on these kid's right to walk down the street dressed within the law? Sound like it to me. Woudl be consistent with necon nutjobs wilingness to stick their noses into personal behaviours.

On the other hand, being clueless social outcasts who think it's all about them is one thing that Liberals and Libertarians have in common.

On the other hand, being intrusive and controlling about how people dress and live their lives, controlling hypocritcal neocons who scream about intrusion into their lives seem to have much in common with .... well ... facists and dictators.

It is shockingly disturbing how you have single handedly (no, both you and the "artiste") twisted the most simple of issues and now start speaking of fascists and dictators...is Hitler on deck in your next post?

For the umpteenth time, my position:

1) charge man with attempted murder.

2) the youths used poor judgement, were unable to recognize a disturbed man using profanity, and like typical snarky youths felt it obligatory to bark back with their "fat ass", thus triggering the disturbed man to shoot one in the buttocks. My suggestion was for them to get humble for one second in their lives, pull up their pants and get the hell out of there. Drop their drawers away from him in safety.

.get humble for one second in their lives

No. This bully does not get a pass for thinking he's right nor because some people agree that he was right. He stalked the teens. Shot one of them from behind. Criminal. Bully. Prison.

I see, for the sake of principle, take a bullet...is that it? And not one person here thinks he was in the right. But apparently twisting the argument is a specialty among some here. Outrageous!

He was not holding the gun at the time that they called him a "fat ass". I don't think that they would have if they had seen the gun. I agree that they should not have called him that, but they were no less mature than the "adult" who called them "a derogatory word for gay men".

Shoot a gun to wound a person. Go to prison.

Of course he should suffer any applicable punishment for shooting someone, but walking around with your pants falling down, unless it is an accident, is disrespectful to the rest of society. It shows you are a moron who emulates penitentiary behavior and are probably anti-social. It is not acceptable.

I was on the subway once when a young guy got on with his pants falling down. When he sat down across the aisle from me his pants fell even further, so that they were at the level they would be at if he were sitting on the can doing his business. Why should I have to look at that idiocy after a hard day's work?

Why should he have to look at a crusty old curmudgeon on his way home? The only law regarding indecent exposure says he can't flash his junk at you, other than that it's up to you to suck it up and deal. If that's too much of an imposition on your sensibilities then you can always buy a car and drive to work.

While it may look silly I have to agree with bonos. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with looking at one piece of fabric over another. If someone wants to walk around with their underwear showing, or in their pajamas, or in a wetsuit, frankly I don't really care. They can dress how they like and I'll do the same. Freedom of choice and all that nonsense.

I am no more a fan of 'prison chic' than the next adult in this world. However, it is a phase that does pass and it is surely not worth getting your gun and shooting someone. This man, clearly, overstepped his bounds; the young people may have learned a lesson and may not be quite so quick with their 'snappy' comebacks next time.

To me this is more an indication of the 'my way or the highway' attitude of way too many people in this country nowadays.

pjw, I agree with you about "prison chic." What I don't understand, however, is why this particular fashion is still "in fashion." I've waited for some years now for this fad to fade. I don't think that the lesson here, though, concerns "snappy comebacks." The boys were not breaking any laws whereas the "adult" mistakenly assumed that his wishes must be obeyed. He is the one with lessons to learn. Prison may be just the place for him to comtemplate respect for divergent lifestyles.

While it may look silly I have to agree with bonos. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with looking at one piece of fabric over another. If someone wants to walk around with their underwear showing, or in their pajamas, or in a wetsuit, frankly I don't really care. They can dress how they like and I'll do the same. Freedom of choice and all that nonsense.

So non conformity is always acceptable? I would assume then in your eyes people don't have to dress at all. If someone walks down the street butt naked, what do you care?

They should also be able to play their music as loud as they like in front of your house or apartment, after all you are free to ignore it.

Maybe someone wants to scream at you in the grocery store, please don't object, you can just turn your back.

What I don't understand, however, is why this particular fashion is still "in fashion." I've waited for some years now for this fad to fade.

Makes me feel better about that polyester leisure suit I had back in the day.

So non conformity is always acceptable?

Absolutely, in my mind it's encouraged.

If my kid dressed like that I would probably tell them they looked stupid everyday. However some grown man better not step to my kid in the street with a gun to enforce his idea of a dress code.

We actively see a lack of adult civility raging in our society including in our vine comments. We should not be surprised that our children imitate us.

The manner in which clothing is worn signals respect or lack of respect.

I refuse to pigeon-hole the lack of civility as being non-conformist. It's not OK for adults or children to be inappropriately attired. I'm not buying the argument that droopy pants and other inappropriate attire are acts of not conforming. I feel similarly about tatoos and body piercings.

Thanks for letting me vent.

If you find yourself becoming enraged over someone else's choice of how to dress, seek mental help. It's that easy. Who becomes offended over viewing a piece of cloth?

People like that are no different from the Taliban. Over there they will shoot a woman if her burqua raises a little too high; apparently here in the states, they'll shoot a male if his pants go a little too low.

Either way, it's Taliban behavior; it's violent, it's extreme, and it's sick.

100% spot on bonos!

Thanks, JustMe.

In addition, the rumor about bagging pants being about prison homosexuality sounded a little Rush Limbaugh-ish to me...like a goofy rumor started by an out of touch guy who takes offense too easily, so I researched it. Just as I thought. There's no truth in it.

http://www.snopes.com/risque/homosex/sagging.asp

I think it might be funny to start a new rumor that fat old white guys who go around with huge cigars in their mouth are signaling their desire to give oral sex. Makes about as much sense, and really, sucking on a cigar isn't exactly attractive either.

:)

I thought the same thing when I read that "theory."

Seeing someone's underwear (which is made of the same damned cotton as our clothing) peeking out is somehow so offensive that it warrants bodily harm or possibly murder in some minds.

I think it looks silly, personally. No different than the hair bangs and afros, and beads, and tie-dyed shirts & bell bottom pants... etc. Just another passing fad... kids trying to declare their independence by being just like all the other kids...

Happytoseeya, I totally agree with you about droopy pant, tatoos, and body piercings. I once saw a lovely young woman covered with tatoos and my immediate reaction was "I bet her parents wish they'd drowned her at birth." Mercifully my own daughter is too afraid of pain for either tatoos or piercings. Maybe all these things signal lack of respect. So what? Where in the constitution does it state that anyone must respect anyone else? And how would such a law be enforced? There are, however, laws that restrict what you may do with a firearm and loosing it into the rear end of a young man who doesn't respect you does not seem to fit neatly into any of those laws.

bonos @3.9 - my comment is not about being enraged and as a result needing mental help. Being able to vent does not necessarily involve high emotionalism as much as it is an opportunity to share closely held observations.

Your response is more about you than about me. You don't mind that people walk around in droopy pants. OK

Consider this: suppose that young man applies for a job where the person interviewing him, saw him in droopy pants. Does the young man's interview behavior overcome the interviewer's memory of the droopy pants? It's old timey common sense that my elders taught us: be careful how you are attired and behave in public. I know the truth of this common sense.

I would assume then in your eyes people don't have to dress at all. If someone walks down the street butt naked, what do you care? They should also be able to play their music as loud as they like in front of your house or apartment, after all you are free to ignore it.Maybe someone wants to scream at you in the grocery store, please don't object, you can just turn your back

I don't really care if people walk down the street butt naked, but there are laws against that. We also have noise statutes which limit how loud someone can play music, and noise pollution does have a direct effect on me. As far as people yelling at me at the super market, it's a private establishment and the owners can regulate it as they see fit. If it was a habitual occurrence at a super market I might shop somewhere else. As it is I tend to try and shop at times when there won't be a million kids running around the store - but I certainly wouldn't demand children not be allowed in. On a public street corner there's a good chance you will find someone screaming about something, and I generally just continue walking down the road when I encounter such a person.

Consider this: suppose that young man applies for a job where the person interviewing him, saw him in droopy pants. Does the young man's interview behavior overcome the interviewer's memory of the droopy pants? It's old timey common sense that my elders taught us: be careful how you are attired and behave in public. I know the truth of this common sense.

Then maybe that "adult" who felt he had to do something should have said. "Hey Kid I am going to tell you something no one might have told you before when people see you with your pants hanging down it makes them think you are dumb. You may be very smart but cold hard facts are that what's people see."

Instead he demanded the change their style in the street and when they rightfully told him to F off he shot one. That is not ok for any reason. What he should have done is minded his own damn business.

It's hard having the courage to complain to people that you don't know and who don't know you and tell them that their attire and/or behavior is inappropriate. Public attire and behavior is our damn business. Many of us are justifiably afraid to deal with it. At least, I am.

I agree that the man could have chosen to tell the youth to pull up his pants instead of shooting him. I suspect that there was much more going on with the man with the gun than the irritation of seeing a youth with droopy pants. I wonder where that man was going with that gun and whether a mass shooting was averted.

Consider this: suppose that young man applies for a job where the person interviewing him, saw him in droopy pants.

It's not likely that the interviewer would hire the young man. The interviewer would be doing the young man a favor by telling him in a calm and informative manner that droopy pants are not appropriate in the workplace. However, if he shot the boy in the ass then that would be illegal.

HappytoSeeYa, these kids weren't on a job interview. Do you always dress in a suit and tie on the street? Should you be refused a job b/c perhaps someone may have seen you in sloppy shorts and a tee shirt mowing your lawn, or at a ball game? I sure hope no one ever takes offense at a tee shirt you wear and thinks they have a right to scream at you in public to change it.

Happy, unless there is some ordinance forbidding droopy pants, the attire of the young men was NOT inappropriate and the shooter had no business addressing their appearance with words or ammunition. Are you one of those men who feels to compelled to point out the obvious in all situations, such as "Your sister is fat"?

bonos, sms - I clearly understand your viewpoints that no one has a right to tell other people how to dress. I just don't agree with you.

LOL, RAC - you are actually proving my point about the lack of civility even among people on the vine.

I clearly understand your viewpoints that no one has a right to tell other people how to dress. I just don't agree with you.

You disagree with it not being your right to tell other people how to dress?

You can tell your employees how to dress while on the job because that affects your business, but you can't tell a passerby how to dress. Who do you think you are?

I don't have a right to tell people in public how to dress. That's a strawman argument that's easy to set up and knock down.

If you read my comments further up, you will find that I don't tell people who I don't know how to dress. While it's not a right to discuss proper attire and behavior with strangers, I am concerned for our youth and adults who don't know or understand very basic appropriate attire and civility. I'm not advocating for shirts and ties, etc. just a modicum of respect in clothing presentation.

[quoting me from an above post] It's hard having the courage to complain to people that you don't know and who don't know you and tell them that their attire and/or behavior is inappropriate. Public attire and behavior is our damn business. Many of us are justifiably afraid to deal with it. At least, I am.

Happy, unhappily you are not in charge of the civility of passersby either. As the Christian right is so fond of reminding the rest of us: You don't have the right not to be offended.

bonos, sms - I clearly understand your viewpoints that no one has a right to tell other people how to dress. I just don't agree with you.

Great, I would like you to wear a clown suit for the rest of the year. I don't really care that you don't want to wear a clown suit.....I want you to. And since you think people have the right to tell you how to dress you should have no problem complying.

Great, I would like you to wear a clown suit for the rest of the year. I don't really care that you don't want to wear a clown suit.....I want you to. And since you think people have the right to tell you how to dress you should have no problem complying.

And when you don't wear the clown suit, we get to yell at you and call you a faggot. You then need to just lower your head and walk by.

My hero...

Your hero was off his meds.

I've always hated the "golf look".

I bet the same people cheering this guy would lose their minds if some guy started popping @!$%#s in golf shirts and shorts.

How about some redneck shopping in walmart dressed in camo?

http://www.feverpitcher.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/heart-foundation-golf-day.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_y2Pxq1jHI8A/SYQLHK36maI/AAAAAAAAC4g/pdUxRd35mlA/s400/golf+clothing+for+men+03.jpg

http://www.lolcaption.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/funny-fail-pics-walmart-camo.jpg

Excessive but quite funny.

You really think shooting kids in the ass for wearing droopy pants is funny?

In this case: kids = retarded social rejects that are a waste of space

Do you mean that all kids are retarded social rejects, or just the ones who don't dress the way that you would like for them to?

How can someone think showing off their underwear looks good. I know that I am of a different generation but really.

I would imagine there are people who would look at you and how you dress and say, "How can she/he think they look good wearing that!" Their personal taste is just that. How about people keeping their opinions of how people dress to themselves and mind their own business when it comes to dress?

sunshinegirl - Might want to read post #3.11

Yes, ironically, he'll be wearing that outfit himself now.

Maybe his cell mate "Bubba" will teach him some manners.

Just head over to walmart and your sure to find a fatty wearing stretchy pants.

. . . which can be more offensive than droopy pants . . . and what about about those guys who wear pants that expose the butt crack? . . . I certainly don't want to look at a hairy ass. Maybe I should start carrying a gun and shooting them in the ass.

As long as you don't ever moon anyone on purpose, you can still be my friend. :-)

I'll have to think about this a little more . . . you can always look away if someone moons you, but you really can't escape farts.

Instead of shooting, what he should have done is go behind them, and pull the pants all the way down...little embarrassment will cure that...My dad did it to my brother, when looking like that in public, only he grabbed the underwear too, talk about turning red...and pulled them pants right up.

So violating their personal space and assalting physically instead of shooting tha them is the answer? Hmm ..... interesting.

Dad's are one thing - strangers quite another. How about he just left them the @!$%# alone.

Yeah....an older guy running up and trying to pull a teens pants down......that doesn't look very good.

Easy guys, the other reaction I speak of is more of the ol' pants and run routine... I am well aware of how "not looking good" an older man pulling teens pants down would appear. Just had a real life fix to that situation, that to me was hilarious. Yes, dads and strangers are different ball parks. Really though watching teens that walk around like that is quite funny. They look rediculous, and are constantly grabbing at themselves trying to keep the pants from falling all the way down. Watching them run for whatever reason with those pants..even funnier.

Easy guys, the other reaction I speak of is more of the ol' pants and run routine...

Ahh - grade school @!$%#. Like when I walk up behind you and pull your underwear up and over your head so that it cuts your @!$%# and bleeds - like that gradeschool @!$%#?

Watching kids trying to run when they dress like that is one thing but actively causing them to trip and fall is bullying and assault.

Wow Rac...Up tight much???...Must've been one of those kids that got hardcore picked on when you were younger, you mean a wedgie...yeah...had them...never bled though...must've sucked for ya. Take my comment for what it was, a crack at the story, and move on...jeebus.

Then see comment 1.22.